Talia: [00:00:00] The power of technology in conservation is just more effectively and efficiently doing the things that humans can't do by ourselves, which is super cool and exciting. You can track the movements of animals, experiencing the world through their eyes and ears and senses. These are evolutionary sensing systems that have been you know, developed over millennia really. So being able to look at the world just in a totally different lens is really wonderful.

Alexander: Welcome to another episode of Wildlife Café where there's no greater brew than the combination of curiosity, wonder, and love for our wild world.

And today's topic is another fun one that pushes the boundaries of just how far that curiosity and love can take us.

From cameras to GPS collars, to drones, to AI, the world of tech is immensely diverse and how it's all being used to help wildlife conservation is not just the stuff of the future. It's all happening now.

We can track sea turtles across oceans and use thermal imaging to see animals in the pitch black at night. We can even use tools to listen for animals that our ears can't even hear.

This is no longer the stuff of science fiction. Technology not [00:01:00] only changes the game for conservation, but it is very much already a part of the game.

And to help me break all this down, are Talia Speaker and Alex Rood, two wildlife tech gurus who lead WWF's global conservation tech community, WILDLABS, and are passionate conservationists who are immersed in this world and working to elevate the power of tech for successful wildlife conservation.

We are gonna talk about all of these big topics and big ideas and big questions, but united by our even bigger love for animals and the natural world.

Thanks for joining us. As always, be sure to subscribe to catch future episodes like this one, and let's sip on some stories about the exciting world of conservation tech.

Alexander: Hey Talia and Alex, thanks for joining Wildlife Café.

Talia: It's great to be here.

Alex: Thanks so much for having us.

Alexander: I've been really looking forward to talking to you both because I think this topic of conservation tech is just so neat, and I know my head is spinning already with so many questions and thoughts about it all. So thank you in advance for helping me make sense of it [00:02:00] all.

Talia: This is our favorite topic, so we're super happy to be here and talk through it all.

Alexander: There is such a scope here that we're talking about, and I feel like when you hear the word tech, it does conjure up a sort of specific image in your mind. The reality is that it is such an overall diverse field that has grown and changed over time, even in just the past decade alone and what that definition even means of tech.

But how would you seek to define and describe what is conservation tech just overall?

Alex: For me, conservation tech is just as simple as what it sounds. It's people that are using technology for conservation monitoring, biodiversity monitoring, and there is a super wide range of what that means. So it can be hardware tools, so physical tools like camera traps, which are remotely triggered, cameras that help us monitor individual populations, as well as hardware, like acoustic recording devices. But then we also have AI that helps us, identify species based on those acoustic recordings or based on camera trap images, identifying individuals in a species population

and in addition to that [00:03:00] hardware and that software, we also have mobile applications that you can download right to your phone that are used by people all around the world.

Citizens in addition to scientists and conservationists that all contribute to the wildlife monitoring and conservation efforts around the world.

Alexander: That's so cool. There's so much like you were just going through Alex and I'd love to know how, or where you see tech being an overall positive force in conservation. Where does that true power lie when it comes to incorporating tech into conservation work or even decision making that has that conservation mindset?

Talia: The power of technology in conservation is just more effectively and efficiently doing the things that humans can already do. For example, in a protected area or a national park, or an urban wildlife landscape, it's letting people, rather than, taking a notebook and a pen or pencil and going out and doing field observations and writing down all the everything that they see and tracking these wildlife signs, which that does still happen a lot in the world, [00:04:00] but rather than relying on manual labor, we're actually using the tools that are powering the rest of our world now and just applying those to conservation settings. So digitizing workflows and then really speeding up things like, as Alex was talking about, rather than now when we have lots of large data sets from different sensors that are out in the field, whether that's from cameras or acoustic sensors or drones, we can now have tools like AI help us process those data in a way that's meaningful.

And actually like, get information out of it that might be difficult or very time consuming, like take years from one person. And then the other thing is that there are things that really technology is enabling us to do that humans really can't do by ourselves, which is super cool and exciting. And so that's things like with bio loggers, you can track the movements of animals and see how they're responding to changes in their environments, or experiencing the world through their eyes and ears and senses. These are evolutionary sensing systems that have been developed in these animals over [00:05:00] millennia really.

So being able to look at the world just in a totally different lens is really wonderful.

Alexander: That's so cool. You can like, in a way live vicariously or live through their lives, like you can become these different animals That's so cool. Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that we're all wearing the same sweater very serendipitously and accidentally.

We're very much in sync. I love that. I'm also always so fascinated to hear how people first get interested and pulled into the work that they do, and just where that passion even starts. So I'd love to know what that was for you and even if it maybe was from using a certain tool that you might have personally used in the field or in your everyday life, what is it that excited you now or where you see the most promise in going forward?

Talia: For me, it really stemmed from a love of wildlife. And a really like deep seated sense of responsibility for protecting our wild species and environments. And I was very lucky to grow up in a place that had a lot of nature around me, but was also really close by Silicon Valley. And I [00:06:00] saw, I had an engineer for a father and I saw all this innovation taking over our world and changing the way we engage with things.

And when I started my career as a wildlife conservationist, I was honestly really just disappointed in the tools that were available to us, 'cause I felt like, this is the most important challenge of our time. And I felt this, yeah, this work responsibility in our generation to be able to figure out how do we understand and protect our natural world in a better way than generations before us have because we're running out of time and we're losing these species.

We really just can't afford to not be using the best available science and technologies. And so that's really what it came down to for me. I had some early experiences as a field intern. For example, like tracking pumas with radio transmitters, basically like holding up an antenna above my head that felt like we were looking for aliens or something and waiting for the ping from the callers and spending hours like looking for one individual animal. Because at the time, and in some cases these [00:07:00] still are the best technologies to use, but at the time these were the best available tools and I was seeing firsthand like how slow it was and how much human effort it was taking to just get one data point on the map. And the same thing with like camera trap images where I was the intern who had to go manually label like 200,000 camera trap images. And that was like, you know, hours and hours of my time. And I saw these manual systems and again, thinking back to my like systems engineer father and always looking at kind of efficiency in systems, I just was like this is wild that this is the best available technology here. So I got really interested in how can we use AI, how can we improve the efficiency of these systems? 'Cause we are also like, I'm doing all this work with an iPhone in my back pocket that can tell us so much about, like the weather in Nairobi or, being able to predict the stock market or whatever it is.

And seeing this capacity for technology transfer that at that time around 10 years ago was not really translating to conservation impact yet.

Alex: Um, [00:08:00] for me, I do not have a traditional conservation background. My first job out of college was as a copywriter in the corporate marketing world and I'd always been super passionate about wildlife, about nature, about conservation, and after a certain amount of time of working in the private sector, I just really felt that I needed to be doing work that felt more meaningful and impactful, and aligned with like my own personal values. And I was lucky enough to stumble upon this position working with the conservation tech community.

And I like to think that I was up to date on what was happening in conservation, but this was a sub-sector that I had never heard about before. And like Talia mentioned, it was like smack me in the face of being like, of course this is what we should be doing. Technology is ingrained in every other facet of our lives.

Why isn't it more intertwined with conservation. It has the potential to make these incredibly meaningful leaps and bounds in what we're doing and the work that we're doing.

Alexander: I love that. Thank you so much both of you for sharing. And I [00:09:00] love hearing just like the different backgrounds, just between the two of you and like different entry points into this world, but the multitude of different facets that are a part of this world of conservation tech and the role that so many different people can have as a part of it as a unifying force.

So cool to see. But I wonder too, as like part of the larger conversation, if you've noticed too, any misconceptions or extrapolations that can come when, whenever you're talking about the value of tech and how it's used and so on. I was curious if you noticed any kind of misconceptions about the role and value that tech can play for wildlife conservation efforts and how it can help.

Alex: I think when people hear the word tech and think about technology in Silicon Valley, it feels very diametrically opposed to nature, like having this hardware that's produced by people inside and versus this ephemeral sort of beauty of nature, but they have the opportunity to be intertwined in a really meaningful way.

Bringing technology into conservation isn't just about having a shiny tool that does cool things. Though that is [00:10:00] a really exciting part of what we do. It's about making data collection more efficient, making policy changes more efficient, using more up-to-date data and information that we can act upon, and that is the, I think the beauty of bringing tech into conservation. It's not just because we have it available and because it's fun to use, though again, that is part of it, it's because it makes this work a lot more impactful a lot quicker.

Alexander: And a big part of the conversation now around tech is AI and you both were just mentioning it before multiple times, and it's such a big part of the conversation, how it rears its head in other sectors when it comes to tech and conservation is not immune to that.

And so actually one of our WWF Heroes was curious about that too. So we wanted to try something new for this episode and point to our recurring donors, our WWF Heroes, and what will hopefully be a semi recurring segment and questions that they have as well. And to learn more about WWF Heroes or to become one, please see the link in the video description.

But for this episode, we invited them to submit questions in advance, and we're excited to feature a couple here. [00:11:00] And this question comes from WWF Hero, Dana, and it hearkens back to the subject around AI asking: "How are you using artificial intelligence to help protect and preserve biodiversity and particularly endangered and threatened species?"

Alex: People in conservation are using AI in a ton of different ways, and it is rapidly advancing, which is really exciting to see. People are using AI to do individual recognition for specific animals. So tracking, say one bear over the course of many seasons, being able to use the unique features on its face to say that is, say Joe the bear, which you really can't do or is much more difficult to do using just human eyesight. As well as recordings, audio recordings of say bird calls and being able to identify what species of bird that is. Being able to estimate what the biodiversity level is of how many species are in a specific range, or tracking over time how human impacts say of like a highway being close to a wildlife corridor area changes [00:12:00] over time AI is playing a huge role in lifting the burden, the energy burden of what would normally take a person hours and hours, months, maybe years, to do.

Talia: AI is like changing and advancing so quickly. I think as we all know with Chat GPT and generative AI, and there's this whole world of applications that could be extremely transformative in conservation that we haven't quite tapped into yet, but that we're laying the groundwork for.

But that's really like decision support for conservation. That could mean things like helping conservationists ask a question to a chat bot that could help it determine which technology is best suited to this? What's the best methodology for setting up these kinds of things?

And then the final component I think is actually getting to predictive analyses. So things just like we predict weather trends, being able to predict in a meaningful, like really scientifically robust way, where, how will climate impacts or land use changes by humans, like the way that we're engaged in farming or agriculture or urban [00:13:00] expansion? How do we need to adjust our conservation strategies to account for these changes? And that's something that is really exciting to look forward to the future.

Alexander: That is so cool. That's awesome. Thank you both for digging into that. Let's go with another question actually. This one is from WWF Hero, Denise, who wonders: "how do you monitor the same wild animal over years keeping track of them while ensuring those conservation measures and protections are still working and in place?"

Talia: Yeah, there's a lot of different ways that you can do this. One of them is really old fashioned, like one of the most kind of non-techy technologies is just like bird banding, I think was one of the first examples of this. Probably lots of people have seen the little colored rings around bird's feet.

A lot of citizen science projects engage people to do this kind of banding work, and that lets you see basically whether a lot of times they have a number on them, and it lets you see, okay, with human observation, just someone with binoculars might have seen this bird in this area, and then maybe we saw it over on a different island or in a different location.

That helps us understand [00:14:00] things like migratory patterns. Now some of them are getting more high tech. And that's evolved also into this world of bio logging. And so I would say that's the most common way to track one individual is actually having a wildlife tracker that often has a GPS component to it, and it helps you see where an individual animal is actually moving around the world, in some cases in kind of real time, which is really fascinating to see.

Alexander: Amazing. So cool. Huge thank you to Dana and Denise too for asking those great questions. And if anyone watching this is interested in becoming a WWF Hero, check out the link in the description below and then maybe you can ask a question for a future episode. But Denise's question gets at a point that I've been curious about too, regarding time and change and how tech can fit into that overall transition.

'Cause our planet is ever changing, and progress and development continues and is a part of that. So what does the role of conservation tech look like in helping cope with that change?

Talia: Yeah, I love that question. This springs to mind a quote from a research [00:15:00] project we did a few years back where we were in the middle of this brainstorming session and talking about what innovations are gonna really meet our needs and change the world and what are our gaps and challenges. And one of our focus group participants was like, wait, let's just stop for a second. Are we just investing and documenting the obituary of our dying planet? And we were all like, oh my gosh, that hit hard. Are we just developing all this technology that's just gonna document the decline and loss of species and biodiversity and climate impacts? But like all of these insights that we're investing in, it's gonna be too late.

And all we're doing is this documentation. I think when I think about the role of technology in our changing world and how quickly these changes are taking place, it's really, how can we invest in technology in a way that it can help us meaningfully intervene in a way that we couldn't without it?

We're at a really exciting point in conservation technology because it's been as we've talked about, maybe like an undervalued field and undervalued part of the conservation [00:16:00] space, and maybe partially because of this perception that there's this divide between technology and nature, and that they aren't seen as being interwoven. But we need to really take that next step and get to the point of how are we then making sure that the data we're collecting and producing the insights we're developing are being used to actually inform decision making.

Alexander: So I, you maybe answered this already, 'cause I am curious, we were talking about like the present, but I'm curious. Yeah. Forward looking, even just the next 10, 20 years, what the future holds for conservation tech. If you were to make that educated guess what you think that is, or maybe rather what you would like that future to be, what would you like to see?

Talia: Yeah, I think there are two components. One is what I was just talking about decision making and really getting these technologies into the hands of the people who need them most. So one of those components is decision makers, 'cause even now we're really seeing that people in government positions are not super aware of what technologies [00:17:00] exist and what's effective and what they should be investing in and trusting.

So I think that's one piece of work that we're definitely working on and all of our partners are too, is how do we ensure that technologies are actually being used appropriately and the best available tools are being used by governments. And then the other thing is that even though like we're saying a lot of these technologies now exist where humans don't have to go out in the field and do all of the collection by hand, in a lot of areas like the groups that we know are the best stewards for conservation, like local and Indigenous communities are the ones that have the most limited access to these technologies. And so that's really where I think the future lies, is making sure that these technologies are in the hands of the people who are stewarding our lands the best. And there's a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of supporting that adoption and capacity building on the ground.

Alexander: Are there ways people can get involved somehow or use some of these tools and apps and do like their own discovery and research or contribute to these larger conservation [00:18:00] efforts?

Alex: Yeah. One of the, one of the best ways for regular people to get involved in conservation tech is to make use of what we call citizen science platforms or apps, which sort of, as the name implies, is making scientists out of regular everyday people, just citizens of this world. There are apps that people might have already heard about, like eBird or iNaturalist or Merlin, where you can, you know, take a picture of a bird or take a picture of a plant or an animal or record an audio clip to identify what bird is making that call, or what plant that is, or what animal that is. And for a lot of these apps, that information actually gets basically incorporated into this global biodiversity data set that those decision makers that Talia mentioned use that data to, to track global biodiversity trends and make decisions, policy decisions and implications that end up protecting our wildlife and making positive changes in biodiversity and conservation. So that's an easy and honestly really fun and interesting way [00:19:00] to get involved because I can't tell you how many times I've heard a bird call and said, what's that? And then you get an answer immediately. And it's such a beautiful display of how conservation tech benefits the general population as well of being able to make people more connected to nature.

Alexander: That is so cool. So a lot of the data from those apps and software are data that decision makers and people up top are looking to and using?

Alex: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It gets people, you know, photos and audio clips that people are taking are getting sent right into that large data set that people are using for decision making. So it's a great way to not only connect with nature, but also make contributions to data sets that are impacting conservation.

Alexander: I was gonna ask if you had any advice for someone who's interested in wanting to get involved and learn more about conservation tech, and I would love to know what that advice is, but it sounds like that's a clear, directive right there.

Alex: Yes, that's certainly one way to, to, get some hands-on experience with conservation tech. And if you're interested in learning about other projects that are going on or other types [00:20:00] of work that people are doing, there's a global online community called WILDLABS that you can visit, at WILDLABS.net, which over 11,000 people across the world who are using and making technology for conservation. And it's a really beautiful community where people ask questions about how to overcome challenges in their research or just share really interesting tidbits or stories about how they've gone to create a certain technology or success stories in the field and whatnot.

And that's a really great place to just get a snapshot of what conservation tech looks like today, right now, which ends up being a great sort of looking glass into what is gonna happen down the line.

Talia: Another really wonderful part about our WILDLABS community is that it's really a space where people who have all different kind of skill sets, whether it's in like arts or communication or engineering can come and find out about conservation technology projects.

And a lot of people come to our community asking like, how can I contribute [00:21:00] to conservation? And maybe as like a software developer, they didn't go to school thinking that conservation was gonna be something aligned with their degree or what they planned for their career. And I think it's really just like a space that really thrives on creativity and innovation and people just wanting to chip in. And, there are so many amazing projects that you can go find and read about on WILDLABS that happened because some engineer in Japan saw a conservationist post on the platform saying, 'Hey I have this idea and I wanna build this thing and I don't have the skills.'

And they said, 'Hey, I have a few hours after work during these times. Let me try and see if we can build something together.' And now that's like a scaled tool that's available for others to use. So, go have a look and see what's out there and see if you can find a place for yourself in the community.

Alexander: That's awesome. That's amazing that community exists. Yeah, highly recommend folks to get involved there, if they're interested in getting involved. Before we all part ways, I really wanna know just finally, what makes you hopeful for the future of wildlife conservation and if [00:22:00] that's born out of maybe a favorite part or corner of this tech community?

Alex: The thing that makes me most hopeful for conservation in general, but also conservation tech is, like Talia just mentioned, there is such a strong community and such a strong desire to solve these problems together that I think really transcends a lot of the hardships that we're facing in this world.

Whether it's funding specific things in conservation or policy implications, there's a really tight-knit community that people lean on, not only for technical support and technical help, but also like emotional support of being like, this is really hard, being in this field, who can relate? And I think in tough times in conservation and biodiversity that community and leaning on each other is really gonna go a super long way in making sure that people don't get burnt out, that people stay motivated, and that, every solutions are much more creative and innovative when they're born out of multiple people putting their heads together. So it, I'm super hopeful for the future and also excited 'cause tech is [00:23:00] making strides also in our personal lives that I think will eventually and hopefully translate to conservation as well.

Talia: I would totally echo everything Alex said. I think that community is really the antidote to hopelessness and isolation. And I think we live in an era where those are unfortunately pretty common in the conservation space, but also more broadly and that when you look at whether it's, across different fields, whether it's seeing the responses to the LA wildfires, like all the community organizing that happened around that, or concerns about human rights, I think that community's like really a powerful and really important piece of the era that we're living in. And especially for conservation, I feel like the conservation tech space in the community that we feel and interact with on WILDLABS and more broadly is just like such an embodiment of the things that make me hopeful about our world.

Like that we have so much innovation and creativity and ability to [00:24:00] just make really cool things and solve problems. And I think that this is like such a cool way to harness our human capacity. We know we have capacity for damaging things, but we also have capacity for making really incredible solutions to things.

And so I think it's just about channeling that and seeing how much we've also already done in this space with so little, like the investment in conservation compared to other sectors, other charitable sectors is relatively low. And then seeing the percentage of that that's going towards innovation and technology, which is a very small percentage still. And looking at the systems that have been developed despite that, and a lot of that is because of people's willingness to collaborate and be open and share ideas and resources. So it makes me really hopeful to imagine what we could do with a little bit more.

Alexander: Awesome. I think that's like the perfect punctuation on all of those points. So thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers to that. Cheers to community. I have had the best time chatting with you both. I can't think of a better way [00:25:00] to spend a daily coffee break. This, there's a lot that I know I am and I hope many others are taking away from this.

So thank you again for sharing with me.

Talia: Thanks so much for having us.

Alex: It has been a pleasure.