America Is Losing Its Grasslands – Why It Matters

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You might know grasslands by other names: prairies, plains, or savannas. Regardless of the name, grasslands matter more than you might think. They filter and supply clean water, store carbon, sustain rural communities and economies, and support iconic wildlife like bison, black-footed ferrets, and birds. But roughly 70% of America’s grasslands have already been lost. And even worse, not enough people seem to notice: A recent WWF survey found that nearly half of Americans are unfamiliar with grasslands.

So why are grasslands disappearing—and what can be done to protect what’s left? In this episode of Nature Breaking, host Seth Larson sits down with Martha Kauffman, WWF’s Vice President for the Great Plains, to break down the science, history, and future of one of America’s most important ecosystems.

Links for More Info:

Martha Kauffman bio

WWF Grasslands Survey

Grasslanders Campaign

TAKE ACTION: Indian Buffalo Management Act

TRANSCRIPT:

Seth Larson: This 4th of July, when you think about iconic American landscapes, what comes to mind? Maybe the mountains or oceans white with foam made famous by a certain song? Don't sleep on the other landscape mentioned in the same verse: our prairies, AKA grasslands. Grasslands once stretched across vast parts of this country. Today, we've lost around 70% of them. And with them, we're losing wildlife, clean water, and even one of our biggest natural defenses against climate change. So what happens if we don't act? And what would it take to protect what's left? Stay tuned to find out.

Welcome to Nature Breaking, a podcast produced by World Wildlife Fund. I'm Seth Larson. As the United States gets ready to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, there's no shortage of reflection about the landscapes, history and ideals that have shaped this country. We often celebrate soaring mountains, dense forests and coastal shorelines, but there's another American landscape that's just as foundational: our grasslands. From tallgrass prairies to sweeping shortgrass plains, grasslands have helped define the American experience.

They supported Indigenous cultures for millennia, fueled westward expansion, and today underpin rural economies, wildlife habitat, and some of the most productive soils on earth. They also store vast amounts of carbon underground, helping to stabilize the climate. And they absorb and filter water like a giant sponge, providing clean drinking water for millions of people. And yet US grasslands are disappearing at an alarming rate. Millions of acres have been plowed under in recent decades, with serious consequences for wildlife, water, climate resilience, and the communities tied to those lands.

So today as we mark this moment in our nation's history, we're asking a forward-looking question: what does it mean to conserve America's grasslands for the next 250 years? I'll be joined by Martha Kauffman, WWF's Vice President for the Great Plains. Martha is stepping down from her role after nearly two decades of leadership, so I'm glad we'll get to hear her insights before she heads off to her next adventure.

Before we begin, don't forget to subscribe to Nature Breaking on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And if you have ideas for future episodes, shoot us an email at [email protected]. Thanks for listening, and here's my conversation with Martha.

Okay, Martha Kauffman, I am so excited to have you here today. Welcome to Nature Breaking.

Martha Kauffman: Thank you, Seth. It's great to be here.

Seth Larson: So in my intro to this episode, I just talked about some of the reasons that grasslands are so important and foundational to this continent and to our country. But I want to start by hearing why grasslands are important to you and why they hold a special place in your heart.

Martha Kauffman: Great. I moved to Montana. I'm originally a Californian.

Seth Larson: Okay.

Martha Kauffman: I moved to Montana in 1993, with my husband and two small children. Our daughters were three and four. And I moved there because my husband and I love the mountains, and we wanted to raise our kids closer to nature.

Seth Larson: Uh huh.

Martha Kauffman: I then got into doing stream restoration work and started working in the prairie. And I just fell in love with the grasslands. And there's a wonderful saying that to love the mountains, all you have to do is open your eyes. To love the prairie, you have to open your soul. So it's a subtler landscape, but it's the enormity of it and the scale of it is... really makes you feel small and part of, also part of nature and part of something bigger. Yeah. And it really needs to be experienced. It's very hard to explain.

Seth Larson: Yeah. I've never spent much time at all in the grasslands or in the, that region of the country. Aside from a couple short visits, and I really don't feel like I got the sense of it that I need. But the way you're describing it and knowing that you're from California. I'm from the East Coast. I'm from Rhode Island. And to me that reminds me of the vastness and the complexity of the ocean.

Martha Kauffman: Yes.

Seth Larson: And when you look out and it just goes forever.

Martha Kauffman: Yes.

Seth Larson: And I'm feeling like there's maybe a similar sensation when you're in these grasslands.

Martha Kauffman: Exactly. Yeah. As a kid, the ocean was the place I went for solace, or if I felt like I needed to think about things, I would sit on the sand and stare at the ocean. And the prairie has the same feeling...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...of just allowing you to open and you get to walk on it.

Seth Larson: Yeah. You won't just sink through.

Martha Kauffman: I can't, couldn't, I can't walk on the ocean. I don't know about you.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: But yeah, you get to walk through it and there's just... In a native prairie, there's this huge diversity of plant life. And so you walk through it and there's flowers and there's bushes, and there's all different kinds of grass, and you might be walking through it, and then all of a sudden, a sage grouse will explode out from one of these underneath a sage brush. And they're so perfectly camouflaged to fit in the landscape, you didn't know it was there, and it's three feet from you. And this giant bird, they're like bigger than a chicken, flies out and makes your heart, jump out a jump.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah, and then you see it soar over across the landscape. Just experiences like that are really, I think what made it really sink into my soul and make me really love it.

Seth Larson: Yeah. For someone who doesn't have that personal connection, why should all of us care about grasslands? What do they mean to our society, to our economy, to our livelihoods? And basically, if you've never been to a grassland, why should you care about one?

Martha Kauffman: That's a great question. And I think we all have a connection to grasslands. We aren't aware of it.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: I, we are starting a new campaign called I Am a Grasslander.

Seth Larson: Okay.

Martha Kauffman: And everyone is a grasslander. First of all, if you're human, you're a grasslander. Because humans evolved in the grasslands. So we as a species are actually grasslanders. Ah, so going way, way, back. Why you should care. But I think there's a personal connection there, an evolutionary connection that most people are aware of, but not, don't ever really maybe think about. If you bring it back home to the present day here in the United States, it is our most abundant ecosystem in the lower 48.

Seth Larson: Yep.

Martha Kauffman: There are, but you might know it by a different name. You might know it by a prairie or the sagebrush step, or the savanna...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...Or the plains. So that we have a lot of different names for the grasslands and they are abundant across the United States. And what do they provide for us? First of all, the grasslands have these deep-rooted systems. Most of what's there is below the ground...

Seth Larson: Yep.

Martha Kauffman: ...in terms of the plant life. And that's what allows the plants to pull and store carbon in the soil. So there's a lot of carbon stored in the soil of grasslands. One third of the planet's carbon is stored in grasslands.

Seth Larson: One third, really?

Martha Kauffman: One third. So they're really important for climate regulation. And so when you, and when you plow them up and destroy them, and you take away that deep-rooted system, you release stored carbon.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So that's a reason we want to keep... one of the many reasons we want to keep them intact.

The other thing they provide is clean drinking water.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Fresh water. If you think about the Mississippi River system, which is the largest river in the continental US of course, right? One lobe is starting from the Midwest to the, toward the east and is the Mississippi River. And that is our biggest farm country in this country. And it's the corn belt, right? And there, when you look at the river and the health of the river, you'll see there's a lot of degradation issues from farming, from the fertilizers and the herbicides and the other agrichemicals. So we have a lot of issues and that creates the dead zone down in the Mississippi, where the Mississippi hits the Gulf.

Seth Larson: Because all those things are draining off of the farmland into the river and down.

Martha Kauffman: Exactly. Creating water quality problems. The other big lobe is the Missouri River, which comes in from the west. The headwaters are in Montana; it flows through the Dakotas and down and meets up with the Mississippi River. That lobe is mostly grassland, and that is healthy, clean, clear water because it's flowing through a native system. There's no chemicals being added into that system. So you have this, so if one thing is clean drinking water.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And there it's like a big sponge. You think about all these plants out there and when the water comes in, it goes into those deep-rooted systems and it's a big sponge that then filters and provides drinking water for millions of people. You're familiar, I'm sure with the Ogallala aquifer.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And so grasslands are the headwaters of that, that are feeding it and supplying some... one of the biggest aquifers for drinking water and agriculture in the United States.

Seth Larson: Interesting.

Martha Kauffman: So clean air, clean water, and then wildlife.

Seth Larson: Wildlife, yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Let's talk about wildlife.

Seth Larson: It's in our name. We have to talk about it.

Martha Kauffman: We have the most, it has... it supports the most iconic American wildlife we have. The bison or buffalo.

Seth Larson: Yep.

Martha Kauffman: Same thing.

Seth Larson: Our national mammal now.

Martha Kauffman: Our national mammal. This is the 10th anniversary of it becoming our national mammal. It's the largest mammal in North America, that once roamed in the tens of millions across the grasslands.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: The pronghorn, which is also known as the antelope.

Seth Larson: Yep.

Martha Kauffman: Although it's unrelated to the African antelope. It's where the deer in the antelope play.

Seth Larson: Exactly. Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah. So a lot of the big mammals all the way down to the small mammals like the swift fox, and the black-footed ferret, which is sadly the most endangered mammal in North America, make their home in the prairie and the grasslands.

Seth Larson: Yeah. Yeah. So you, this incredible range of benefits and it really is central to the fabric of our lives in ways that I think a lot of people may, and myself included, may take for granted on a pretty regular basis.

One thing that I want to ask you about next is what the status and the health of that system is. Because those are pretty important things to have: clean water and safe climate and wildlife to enrich our world. But I know WWF produces an annual report called our Plowprint Report, and it's been chronicling for years now the loss of grasslands as they get plowed up for agricultural purposes. Other factors play into the loss of grasslands as well. Climate change and changing weather patterns and other things. But largely they're being plowed up to plant corn and other crops. And so I wanted to ask you based on that report and just about, based on the work that you do in generally and what in your work, what's the state of our grasslands today and do we have a reason to be worried about them?

Martha Kauffman: About 70% of them are gone.

Seth Larson: 70% are gone.

Martha Kauffman: Yes. In the great.

Seth Larson: That's not great.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah. In the United States. Yeah. They've been turned into cities or farmland. Those are the, primarily. The tall grass prairie is 99% gone because that's really where, it's the wetter area that had the better soils, and that's really where our farming is. And we need the food grown in the United States.

Seth Larson: Of course.

Martha Kauffman: No argument about that. The grasslands that are left tend to be in the drier, more arid part. And so that's more of the short grass prairie and those are less fertile soils.

Seth Larson: Okay.

Martha Kauffman: Turning them into farmland isn't the best and highest use because they're not going to be productive. And they're probably, when the, if those crops don't produce enough, then that farmer is going to probably get government payments to help support that.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So one of the things we're really arguing about is... arguing for is, keep what we have left. It's, we've all, we've seen from the plow up that grassland birds of... all the birds in the continental US, of the US and Canada, have declined since 1970, significantly.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Grassland birds have done the worst.

Seth Larson: Wow.

Martha Kauffman: 50% in my lifetime. 50% of the populations of grassland birds have disappeared.

Seth Larson: Wow.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah. So that's because of habitat loss. So the state of the grasslands is fragile. These are big ecosystems. They're, they require a lot of space to support the species and the ecosystem services that they provide for birds, for mammals, and for people.

And I should have spoken when we talked about what makes them important is also the communities that they support.

Seth Larson: Sure.

Martha Kauffman: There's an economic component to them. It's where a lot of our food is grown and a lot of our rural communities in this, in the center of the country are working lands, that are supporting families in rural communities.

Seth Larson: Yeah. So what needs to change to keep those remaining grasslands intact? Are there policies that need to be enacted or altered? Are there farm level or landowner level activities that just need to change in terms of how we manage these lands? State, regional actions? I'm sure there's a whole host of things that you could speak to, but I'd love for you to share some of the key things that need to change to keep those places intact.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah, it's all of the above. If you start at the federal policy level, we just had Lobby Day yesterday.

Seth Larson: Yeah. Lobby Day is when WWF brings a lot of our volunteers, Panda Ambassadors and supporters to Washington, DC to go meet with their Members of Congress. People come from around the country and this year they did actually have a focus on asking their members to take access, take action on issues relating to grasslands.

Martha Kauffman: Exactly. So yesterday we had 96 meetings...

Seth Larson: Wow.

Martha Kauffman: ...on the hill with these supporters, constituents from different states that enabled us to get into all these different offices and talk about the importance of grasslands and specific policy changes that will make a difference. So some of them relate to the Farm Bill.

Seth Larson: So the Farm Bill, we should just stop and say is really like the foundational piece of agricultural policy in the United States. It has been on the books for decades. It needs to get reauthorized every five years, I believe, and sometimes it... that can, it gets kicked down the road a little bit. But basically whenever it's up for reauthorization, it's an opportunity to think about reorienting policies around crop insurance and crop subsidies and all sorts of policies that affect farms and agriculture in our country.

Martha Kauffman: And nutrition.

Seth Larson: And nutrition. Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: It's a huge part of the bill.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So the Farm Bill also has a conservation title to it, and that has, is the most, probably the biggest leverage of any policy and dollars going to private lands for conservation.

Seth Larson: I see.

Martha Kauffman: So the Farm Bill conservation title is really important and that provides farmers and ranchers with support to make changes to their operations to make them more conservation friendly. So there's a... we have several provisions within that where we think we can improve things.

Seth Larson: Okay.

Martha Kauffman: One of the challenges we've had is that Farm Bill policy right now can reward people for plowing up their land. Because if they plow up marginal land and it doesn't do well, they can still, they can... they get subsidized crop insurance. And then they get paid out if the crop doesn't do well. So it's a big safety net. And so it can be less risky than raising cattle on grass, which can be done in a way that keeps the grass intact and improves its health over time.

Seth Larson: Interesting.

Martha Kauffman: So we were advocating for policies that level the playing field, that aren't moving people towards making that decision to plow up the land. And particularly because the great farmland was farmed a long time ago.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Farmers are really smart.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And they know that good soil makes productive crops. So what's left that's still in grassland is typically pretty low quality, from a farming perspective, soil. So it's better to keep that in grass and provide all the benefits that we already talked about that it does when it stays in grass rather than having to then farm it and then... so it's fiscally responsible to adjust those Farm Bill policies that reduce the risk and the payouts that are going to go with that.

Seth Larson: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And gets to what you said earlier about, let's use the land that we've already converted to farmland and keep producing the food that we need to sustain us. All right, but let's not try to encroach further into land that is still more or less intact, and let's leave those grasslands be and let those ecosystems continue to thrive.

Martha Kauffman: Exactly. And not meant to be farmed. Exactly. Yeah.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So that's the Farm Bill. That's one of the big things that we can adjust to get the incentives better aligned to protect grasslands. There's a whole host of things also with respect to the work to restore species.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So restoring bison. they have to go where people want them. Right now, they're not able to roam freely. They're in national parks and they're also on lands where people have brought them back.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And the leaders in bringing bison back have been the tribes. And of course the Plains Indians have a long history, forever...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...of that interdependence with the bison or buffalo. Providing better support to the tribes to bring Buffalo back makes a ton of sense in terms of the restoration of the land, the health of the land and the health of the people who really see this interdependence, from so many different angles.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And it's not a lot of money. So we're... that's one of the other things we've been advocating for is the Indian Buffalo Management Act that will codify some of this. And then appropriations that will put dollars in the right places that will support that effort.

Seth Larson: Gotcha. Yeah. Bison are actually surprisingly good for those grasslands ecosystems. I interviewed Heather, Dawn Thompson...

Martha Kauffman: Yeah.

Seth Larson: ...who you work closely with, last year. And I shared with her that I was surprised to learn upon coming to WWF that bison are actually good for the land. I think of these big animals trampling everywhere and I'm, in my mind I'm like, that would be terrible for grass. Like thinking of my lawn. But actually the, their habits and the way that they exist in their ecosystem is actually very good for the lands and it makes sense because they evolved together, the land and those animals.

Martha Kauffman: They're one of the main ecosystem engineers...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...of the land really sculpting it and creating the micro habitats for other species. Their hoof action is important. Their wallowing behavior is important. The way they move all contributes to creating a more diverse plant...

Seth Larson: Yep.

Martha Kauffman: ...system as well. Because they're on limited areas right now, they also though you can't, you could have too many animals on too little land is not going to end well for anybody. And so cattle have largely replaced the bison, but the grasses of the Great Plains evolved with bison as their grazer. And to be healthy, they need to be grazed. And right now cows have really replaced bison in playing that role as a grazer. So we have, WWF has a program working with ranchers to help them adopt more regenerative grazing practices.

Seth Larson: Oh, interesting.

Martha Kauffman: That really mimics the way the bison grazed the lands and doing that with the cattle.

Seth Larson: Gotcha.

Martha Kauffman: So some of those Farm Bill programs support that. And yeah, that's some of the policies that we've been advocating for is to help improve the quality of the land by improving the way that the animals are managed.

Seth Larson: Gotcha.

Martha Kauffman: And then I would say the third one on the federal level, I can't leave out the black-footed ferret.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Black-footed ferrets, as I mentioned earlier, are the most endangered mammal in North America.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And there's only 300 in the wild right now today.

Seth Larson: Wow.

Martha Kauffman: Which is hard to even wrap your head around.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And the efforts to keep them from going extinct are due to a lot of partners pulling their way together, including the federal government, including tribes, including zoos and NGOs like WWF. The federal government has a responsibility with animals that are on the endangered species list to help them in their recovery.

The black-footed ferrets have had very minimal funding for the field component of restoration. There's a lot of amazing work that goes into captive breeding programs with the federal government and with the zoos, which enables ferrets to be put out in the wild annually to sites that are ready to host and support them.

Seth Larson: Gotcha.

Martha Kauffman: But those sites are at risk of being decimated by the Sylvatic Plague, which is a non-native disease that wipes out all the prairie dogs, which the ferrets require to eat...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...to remain, to stay alive. So we have been asking the federal government to put more resources towards protecting the sites where black-footed ferrets have been reintroduced. And that will go a long way. It doesn't take a lot of money and it would go a long way. So that's a, another one of our federal policy or appropriations asks that was what we've been talking about.

Seth Larson: Yeah. Yeah, and prairie dogs are another one of those species that actually have multiple benefits to the prairie ecosystem, because the holes they dig, they're, they become homes for the black-footed ferrets that eat the prairie dogs. But those holes also provide shelter for other species and it creates this whole web of life. So that's exactly, that's, we want to see all those animals, doing well and getting that support.

Martha Kauffman: Exactly, it's not just about the ferret. So there's three big ecosystem engineers that we're focused on: the bison, the prairie dog, which provides the habitat for ferrets and many other species as you said, and the beaver...

Seth Larson: Yes.

Martha Kauffman: ...which have been eradicated largely and the landscape was so fundamentally different when it was populated with ferrets, or, excuse me, beaver.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: So we're bringing, we have programs that are restoring beaver and beaver habitat in the Great Plains that we're really excited about, that's a growing part of our program.

Seth Larson: I love that. So I'm hearing there's a number of things that can be done that need to be done to keep our grasslands ecosystems working. Whether there's a number of federal policies that can be enacted or altered. There are things that landowners can do either on their own or in support with the federal government or with organizations like WWF. And there are things we can do to help these ecosystems. I know Indigenous communities have been really important stewards of these grasslands long before there was ever a United States that called this continent home, and in fact, tribal grasslands remain among the most intact in the region, even to this day. Talk about that for a minute, and what should the conservation movement in this country take away from the success that indigenous communities have had, and what can we learn from them?

Martha Kauffman: Some of the largest land reservations are in the Great Plains. And so those... and that is where large intact grasslands still remain. There is so much knowledge there that is held by those communities, particularly I would say about the grasses and the plants themselves.

Seth Larson: Sure.

Martha Kauffman: And the value that they provide to, to people, to humans. Medicines and ways of... and they were burning prairie way back before it became popular among conservationists to start to do some controlled burns and fires in the prairie to keep it... fire and grazing are the two main disturbances that really created prairies in the way that we know them today. How to manage, how to live with them. The bison and the prairie dog also have this interaction where prairie dogs will eat the grass short, and then the new grass that comes up is very high in protein. So the bison will come and graze on prairie dog towns 'cause it's this high protein area.

Seth Larson: Huh.

Martha Kauffman: So there's... and that's only a teeny bit of knowledge I don't carry, but the Indigenous people of the grasslands do carry, and I think there's so much more there that needs to be supported, and recognized, and listened to...

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: ...than we have to date.

Seth Larson: Yeah. Yeah, well said.

I noted in my intro that you will be stepping down from your role soon at WWF after something like 20 years of leadership. And I wanted to ask, while I have you here today, if you have a favorite memory or accomplishment from your time here.

Martha Kauffman: I think the thing... this will get me, sorry, this gets me choked up. I think the thing, sorry, it's really hard to...

Seth Larson: Take your time.

Martha Kauffman: The thing I'm most proud of, it's probably two things. One, I guess it's related to people. One is the team who we have. Amazing people.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Everyone is so dedicated, works so hard, and is very respectful of the communities we work with.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And I would say that would be the second thing is that this program has come along to where, and as WWF has, I would say globally, to recognizing that our work, to be durable and successful and respectful, needs to support the local people and the communities that are stewarding that land. And that's been a big, shift.

And I'm so happy that we're here in this place now where we're working alongside and supporting the visions and the hopes and the dreams of the local people. As opposed to our idea of what good looks like from a conservation perspective.

Seth Larson: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Martha. I really appreciate that. And I think that's profoundly important and I know it's something that you have been personally very involved with and played an important role in getting us to that point.

Martha Kauffman: And again, it's with the team, who's on the ground really building those relationships and building that trust. When I started there was not a lot of trust in the panda.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: And it's still hard won. And it's, but it's what enables us to do the effective work that we do.

Seth Larson: Yeah. As we're sitting here and reflecting on...

Martha Kauffman: Yeah.

Seth Larson: ...on all of that and all of your time here, my last question is, as we're reflecting on your career, but as also our country, the United States is getting ready to reflect on the 250th anniversary of our independence, what's your advice to future generations of conservationists to make sure that our grasslands are still there 250 years from now?

Martha Kauffman: I think we should be proud of them. I think we should be as excited and proud and protective of our grasslands as we are of other ecosystems. I have seen where Americans really glorify the exotic grasslands of the savannas of Africa or the steps of Mongolia and not appreciate what we have at home.

Seth Larson: Yeah.

Martha Kauffman: Which is one of the largest expanses of grassland and the largest expansive temperate grasslands in the world. And so if we value, we will protect what we value. And so my hope is that people increasingly recognize and value and therefore protect grasslands.

Seth Larson: Hear, hear.

Martha Kauffman: Yeah.

Seth Larson: I couldn't say anything better myself. Martha, thank you so much for being here today. I really loved hearing your insights and your passion for this landscape and I think anyone listening here today will come away with a better appreciation of why grasslands matter so much, so thank you so much.

Martha Kauffman: Thank you so much. This has been really fun.

Seth Larson: That's all for today. Thanks to Martha for joining the show and even more importantly for her hard work and dedication at WWF For the last two decades. She and her team have made huge strides for grasslands conservation, sustainable ranching, and community engagement across the Northern Great Plains, and I'm glad we had a chance to celebrate all of that here today with her. I hope you also learned a thing or two about why grasslands matter so much for our American ecosystems and what we can do to reduce some of the pressures they face. For now, Happy Independence Day for those of you in the US. And together let's keep building a more sustainable future.